Interviewer: So tell us a little bit about your background, what do you do?

Ayana: I’m a marine biologist. For the last ten years, I have focused on integrating science into policymaking. So this march and movement are core to the work I do and the way I see the world. I have a consulting firm that works on providing solutions to ocean conservation issues, and does that in a way that centers social justice. I spend my days thinking about how science can serve communities and support policymaking that is good for people.

Interviewer: What was the motivation for the march? How did it all begin?

Ayana: I joined the team after 2 weeks or so of this flurry of activity where people were thinking “We should march for science. How do we do that?” Our three co-chairs came together to carry this idea forward, and I joined as co-director of partnerships because I was excited about the opportunity to build a broad and diverse coalition of organizations that value the role of science in society and all that it does for our health and well-being and economies. So Teon Brooks (co-director of partnerships) and I led this effort to build a coalition of about 300 organizations all over the world – dozens of scientific societies, nonprofits, educational organizations, universities, museums, aquariums.

Going forward, I’m most excited about partnerships with science centers and outreach organizations, because I’ve learned recently that there is very little public trust in information coming from journalists or politicians, but people do still believe what they read on plaques at museums and at aquariums. So it’s critically important to work with these outreach and education organizations that have been doing this very important work for centuries, of translating science for the public.

And as a marine biologist, I was just completely tickled yesterday to see the Monterey Bay Aquarium had a “March of the Penguins for Science” – all these little penguins marching through the aquarium! [Watch the amazing video!] The staff had signs that said “climate change science is black and white” with pictures of black and white penguins on them, and “happy feet for science policy.” It’s been a thrill to see how all these different organizations have activated themselves with whatever their strengths and particular areas of expertise are. Our challenge is to support building a movement that leverages all of that, all of the wonderful work these organizations are doing individually, and see if there’s a way to make that much stronger than they are as individual voices.

Ayana: Absolutely. I was speaking with Megan Smith yesterday, who was the chief technology officer for America until a few months ago. She’s incredible, and she was saying, imagine if for physical education classes you showed up, and they were like, “today we’re gonna be studying basketball, everybody open your textbooks.” And that’s what we’re doing for science! So things like Odyssey of the Mind are critical because it takes science out of this theoretical, dry setting into science is cool, engineering is cool. And there’s the whole maker movement, which I think is a beautiful thing that’s happening across the world right now. We as a scientific community can engage the public by saying let’s not just read about it and talk about it, let’s do experiments, let’s actually use the scientific method to understand the world around us and see what we can do with that information to make better decisions. Thank you for all the coaching work that you’re doing, that’s so important.

Audience Member 4: I’m with the National Communication Association. We talk about the ability to convey science in a tweet, but science is also very complex. One of the things I’m seeing in public communication is the idea that anyone can understand everything. Meanwhile we have people who are experts on these topics, and at some point we need to trust and engage with those individuals, particularly when talking about public policy, evidence-based research, and decision making.

Ayana: Absolutely. I completely agree. I think everyone can understand general science concepts. For example, sustainable fishing: If you catch fewer fish and let them make babies, then fish populations can recover. If you create protected areas, then ecosystems can rebound. The basic principles should absolutely be conveyed clearly to the public. But the detailed ecosystem dynamics and biochemical reactions involved are not necessarily things that can be explained simply. Scientists go through a decade of training, and that expertise should absolutely be respected.

The trend of oversimplification is a challenge, because you have politicians and public figures, saying “I’m not a scientist, but” and then giving their opinions on what the science says. And we have all the headlines about “Chocolate’s good for you,” and “Coffee will solve all your problems,” and endless examples of journalists and society breaking down into soundbites a reality that is actually much more complicated. As much as I want coffee, wine, and chocolate to be cure-alls, that is not what those papers actually say.

Audience Member 5: When we talk about cap and trade, the biggest problem is the price tag. Some people are poor and just can’t pay. So is it the scientists’ responsibility to come up with a plan that can take care of that aspect?

Ayana: That’s a really important question. Part of the answer is expanding our definition of science, because there’s climate science, which says we need to do something to mitigate our emissions and turn around this terrible trend that we’re on. And then there’s economics and sociology, and those are really important fields of science that have a role in making sure certain communities that are already marginalized – poor communities, communities of color – don’t bear the brunt of these larger problems they haven’t even caused. So we can bring together multiple fields of science and approach this as an interdisciplinary scientific challenge to come up with solutions. There is science that can identify problems, and there is science that can identify solutions.

This something I’ve seen as regards to ocean conservation. When you’re trying to address overfishing on a small island, and much of the fishing has been by foreign fishermen, then saying local fishermen have to stop fishing is not a fair solution. They haven’t caused the problem but their food security and livelihoods are now at risk. So how you manage the transition is a big part of the challenge. How do we manage the transition to clean energy and reduced fossil fuels? How do we manage the transition from overfishing to sustainable fishing in a way that takes care of communities? I think that’s something more scientists need to focus on – how to apply what we know about the way the world works to create solutions that will work for people.

Interviewer: We’re going to have to leave it there. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you. This is a hugely important subject.

Ayana: My pleasure, thank you for having me.

Special Shoutouts: Thank you to all the ocean organizations who signed on as partners and made me proud to be part of #TeamOcean: Association for the Sciences of Limnology and Oceanography, Azul, Central Caribbean Marine Institute, Environmental Defense Fund, Dock to Dish, Greenwave, Lonely Whale Foundation, Marine Conservation Institute, Miami Waterkeeper, Monterey Bay Aquarium, The Nature Conservancy, New York Aquarium, Ocean Foundation, Ocean Media Institute, Oceana, The Oceanography Society, Riverkeeper, Society of Wetlands Scientists, Society for Conservation Biology, Wildlife Conservation Society, and World Ocean Festival.

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